Carrie: You’ve been photographed kissing women. Do they kiss the same as men?
Madonna Sometimes better. I’ve kissed girls that are horrible kissers. I’ve only kissed women, though.
Carrie: Well, you’ve done the finger-fucking thing.
Madonna Okay, okay.
Carrie: But that’s it.
Madonna Let me put it this way: I’ve certainly had fantasies of fucking women, but I’m not a lesbian.
Carrie: You never took drugs?
Madonna Not really.
Carrie: You seem like you’re too in control. I like to regain control.
Madonna After you’ve lost it? No, I never like to relinquish it. I went through a real short period where I very begrudgingly tried a few drugs.
Carrie: LSD ever?
Madonna I didn’t really enjoy it. I enjoyed ecstasy.
Carrie: There’s a nickname for ecstasy: St. Joseph baby acid.
Madonna What I like about it was that it took my edge off. I’m a naturally suspicious person, and all of a sudden I didn’t see everyone as my enemy. I was really nice to people.
Carrie: So next time I want you to be really nice to me, I’ll put some ecstasy in your water.
Madonna It was enjoyable a couple of times. But I would feel violently ill after I did it. I’d be bedridden for days, so it wasn’t worth it. Good anecdote, bad reality.
Carrie: It sounds like it’s a good anecdote, bad subsequent reality – which I always used to feel was worth it.
Madonna I never really enjoyed coke because it made me more of a nervous wreck than I am.
Carrie: So, if you are a nervouse wreck, why wouldn’t you have gotten into painkillers?
Madonna They weren’t available. I didn’t know anybody who did them. I was trying drugs before I had money, and the peole I knew were only into ups. Everybody was into coke and crystal meth – stuff that made you chew on the side of your mouth after you took it. If I needed anything, I needed something to calm me down – and nobody seemed to have that.
Carrie: Then you’re lucky. Also you’re not addictive, just compulsive.
Madonna I’m definetly compulsive, but I’m compulsive about being in control.
Carrie: I’m addictive-compulsive, and I would have been a drug addict no matter what. The great philosophy of painkillers is that they make you feel better. Well, if you don’t feel bad already, that’s great; but if you do, that’s better still.
Madonna My treatment for feeling bad was not to make myself feel better but to flagellate myself in other ways.
Carrie: That’s Catholic. What’s your mother complex?
Madonna That I don’t have one, so I’m always looking for someone to fill up my hole – no pun intended.
Carrie: So, then, you’re looking for someone to be your mother?
Madonna Yeah. She’s gone, so I’ve turned my need on to the world and said, “Okay, I don’t have a mother to love me, I’m going to make the world love me.”
Carrie: Now that you’ve gotten the attention and you’ve gotten a certain amount of respect –
Madonna But it’s not enough.
Carrie: No. Well, when is enough? David Mamet has a Pulitzer Prize and still doesn’t feel like a real writer. I mean, I don’t know anybody at any level who goes, “Ahhh!”
Madonna That’s good to know. I wonder if there are people walking around who are happy with what they’ve accomplished? I don’t know anyone who’s happy.
Carrie: Not anybody in this business.
Madonna Which is full of unhappy people…
Carrie: And children of alcoholics. You don’t have that problem.
Madonna There’s alcoholism in my family. My father wasn’t an alcoholic, but his parents were. And some of the people in my mother’s family are alcoholics.
Carrie: You’re lucky you’re aware of that because it makes it a lot easier to handle.
Madonna Absolutely. I guess some people would say that my father’s behaviour was alcoholic behaviour.
Carrie: It would have to be if he’s a child of one. Children of alcoholics don’t manifest the alcoholism, but they do the behaviour. Does your father give you advice.
Carrie: Never? I bet he did. You’re rebelling against somebody.
Madonna My father didn’t give me advice, he just gave orders.
Carrie: Well, that’s advice.
Madonna “Do this or else.”
Carrie: What’s the “or else”?
Madonna I was always grounded or had to do chores or was forced to stay at home for the summer.
Carrie: No hitting?
Madonna My father never hit me. My stepmother slapped me a lot, and she gave me a bloody nose once. I was thrilled about it because my nose bled all over an outfit that she made me for Easter. I really hated it, and I didn’t want to wear it to church.
Carrie: How old were you?
Madonna About twelve. We had a very large family and my stepmother was trying to make end meet, so often she would go to Kmart and buy big bolts of fabric that were on sale. She would sew exact same McCall’s dress pattern for me and my three sisters. I detested that – looking like my sisters. I wanted to be my own person.
Carrie: You’ve succeded in that.
Madonna I know, I know. Anyway, she made us these horrible lime green dresses.